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JR

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Posts: 343
 #16 
Sorry I missed this thread. I think a concern that family and friends have concerning this search is that time is running out. VT State law dictates that any maritime or aircraft wreck is considered an archeological site after 50 years. That would require special permits to search for and examine any wreckage found.

Here is my entry for this case in the Missing Aircraft Data Base:

27 Jan 1971

Aero Commander 1121A

N400CP

5

VT to RI

Enroute from Burlington, VT to Atlanta, GA w/enroute stops at Providence, RI, Newark, NJ, Harrisburg, PA & Jacksonville, FL. The aircraft departed Burlington International Airport at 1952 into near blizzard conditions. The aircraft was enroute to pick up another pax before continuing their flight to Atlanta. The pilot was last heard from when he acknowledged the tower’s instructions to climb to 9000 ft. The aircraft suddenly vanished from radar at 1955 while at 5000 ft near Shelburne Point, W of Burlington only 3 mins after take off. The last contact with the pilot indicated no problems. An Executive Airlines plane that had departed a few mins before the missing plane turned back to conduct a hasty visual search for the plane. Residents on the E side of the Lake Champlain reported hearing a jet fly over at about 2000. The pilot had filed an IFR flight plan. The forecast was limited visibility in blowing snow, turbulence & winds gusting to 20 knots.

The multi state (VT, NY) search was coordinated by the 44th ARRS at Warner-Robins AFB, GA & conducted by the VT Aeronautics Commission. The missing aircraft was presumed to have crashed into the Lake Champlain. A Shelburne police officer on routine patrol near Shelburne Point reported seeing a light out on the lake near Queneska Island. CAP aircraft conducted an initial visual search of the lake without results. This was followed by search of the lake by a VT ARNG fixed wing aircraft, a USCG helicopter & airboats. An attempt to use snowmobiles was ruled out due to the danger of falling thru the ice.

The search was then extended to the NY side of the lake on 29 Jan. A metallic object was spotted on the lake that day, was investigated by an ARNG aircraft & found to be a navigational buoy. When nothing was found in the lake, the search was extended on 30 Jan to the wooded areas around the lake. A NY State Police helicopter & 8 CAP aircraft along with a helicopter & 2 fixed-wing aircraft from the VT ARNG participated in the aerial search. NY CAP aircraft searched from Plattsburgh to Ticonderoga, NY, but uncovered no clues. Overcast, snow & sub-zero temps hampered search efforts & frequently grounded ARNG helicopters. On 31 Jan, a cross country skier reported seeing the tail of an aircraft at the 400 ft level of 4500 ft Whiteface Mountain in the Adirondack Mountains in NY. Based on this report & other witness reports, family members urged that the search be extended to the area around Whiteface Mountain.

That same day, 2 USAF RF4C photo recon jets from the 363d TRW at Shaw AFB, SC conducted photo runs over the search area to include the Champlain Valley & the lake.  It was hoped that the effort would produce imagery that could help find the wreckage. USAF photo analysts at Shaw AFB spotted an oil slick on the lake off Schuyler Island, 5 miles W of Burlington & a ¼ mile off the NY shoreline. This was investigated on 1 Feb by a pontoon equipped helicopter contracted by Cousins Properties. However, bitter cold & ice on the lake prevented the helicopter from landing at the site. The pilot reported spotting several oil spots on the ice. The search for the missing plane was suspended 4 Feb as -20 degree temps, the coldest temps since 1968, froze up the lake. Family members appealed to local residents for any tips or information.

The employers announced they were going to contract Ocean Systems Inc of Reston, VA for a sonar search of the area near Shelburne Point in an effort to find the wreckage. On 1 Feb, plans were made to use the former lake ferry Juniper to carry a 2 man submersible to search the lake. Searchers were going to use dynamite to blast a path thru 14 inches of ice to a point 1 mile out where the ice was thinner. Eventually, two small submarines were going to take part in the search. However, officials determined it was too dangerous to use the mini-subs at the time due to the thick ice on the lake. One 2-man submersible was sent back to a NY salvage yard while the other - the four-man Deep River - was turned around in Albany, NY & returned to Riviera Beach, FL. 

Based on numerous reports of a low flying jet, the 44th ARRS directed NY & VT CAP to search the mountainous area N of Whiteface Mountain in the Adirondack Mountains on 7-9 Feb. Whiteface Mountain, the White Notch & the Crown Point area were all searched. Numerous residents to include a USN Reserve pilot reported hearing a low flying jet over all 3 areas the night of 27 Jan. A VT State Police helicopter supported their efforts.  Search aircraft were hampered by snow showers, high winds & mountain obscuration at the 3000-5000 ft level. The winter wx conditions grounded search efforts on 9 Feb. A new ground search was initiated on 11 Feb in the Mitchell Mountain area, 20 miles SW of Plattsburg, NY after a "glimmer" of light was spotted in the area by a CAP aircraft on 10 Feb. This was an area of interest where numerous residents reported hearing a low flying jet. A 20 man State Patrol & CAP ground team mounted on skis & snow shoes was lifted into the area by USAF helicopters from Plattsburg AFB, NY. They were supported by a NY State Police helicopter in their search of the snow covered wooded & rocky slopes.  However, the source of the glimmer was not found.

On 24 April 1971, plane parts to include a wheel, window frame assembly, latex insulation from the forward cabin, parts of a radio, an antenna & oxygen bottle were found washed up in the vicinity of Queneska Island, 1 mile S of Shelburne Point by 2 men. The parts were identified by the VT Aeronautics Commission as belonging to the missing plane. Media reports stated that serial numbers on the parts were matched to the missing aircraft. The insulation was found to be soaked in JP6 jet fuel that matched the type used by the missing aircraft.  Another ground search of a 5 mile stretch shoreline was conducted by the VT State Police & Shelburne Police Department, supported by a private airboat that searched the ice covered lake. The effort failed to produce anymore wreckage & no human remains were found.

A private search of the lake was initiated by Ocean Systems Inc on 1 May 1971 that was funded by Cousins Properties. Assisted by local law enforcement, they searched a 14 square mile area of the lake SW of Juniper Island off Shelburne Point with a side scan sonar equipped schooner, diver teams & TV equipment. When nothing was found by 10 May, a diving bell & decompression equipment was sent from LA to support the effort. The wreckage of 2 old boats was found on 2 May & 8 May, but no trace of the missing plane. The search was suspended 19 May when all leads were exhausted.  

Based on the evidence, the VT Aeronautics Commission presumed the aircraft to have crashed into Lake Champlain in 330 ft of water in an area bordered by Juniper Island, Shelburne Point & Four Brothers Island. This was 10 miles SE of Burlington.

There was an unconfirmed rumor the aircraft was carrying $1 million in cash & negotiable bonds. This was never confirmed by Cousins Properties. However, it was the possible motivation for several private searches that were conducted over the years. In June & Dec 1979, a private sonar search was conducted by the Lake Champlain Phenomena that was funded by Rochester Engineering Laboratories of Fairport, NY. This was part of a combined search for the missing plane, a shipwreck & the “Lake Champlain Monster.” In July 1980, the Aeronautics Commission stated they had conducted a number of searches off Shelburne Point using state police divers without success.

On 19 Jan 1973, a “wrongful death” suit for $8 million was filed in US District Court by the estate of Mr. Wilder against Cousins Properties, Atlanta Air Maintenance & the North American Rockwell Corp. The suit was eventually settled for an undisclosed amount.

Over the years, family members have continued to press local authorities to resume the search. A renewed joint search effort to find the wreckage was mounted in July 2014 by a unified command that included the NY & VT State Police, US Forest Service, New York Department of Environmental Conservation, American Response for the Missing, Ocean Server Technology Inc, Marine Exploration Group, SeaBotix Inc, Greensea Systems Inc, Salem MA PD, Clinton County NY Sheriff's Department & the USCG. The team used remote underwater drones & sonar to scan 15 square miles of the lake bottom over the weekend of 19-20 July. Though some interesting imagery was recorded, to include a possible debris field, no firm evidence of the crash site was found. No trace of the crew & the 3 businessmen were ever found.

The NTSB was unable to determine the probable cause of the accident. ATP George G. Nikitas, 41 with 9908 flight hrs, co-pilot Donald E. Myers, Robert Ransom “Randy” Williams, 33, Frank Benjamin Wilder, 49 & Richard Kirby Windsor, 31. The pax were consultants for the real estate firm Cousins Properties of Atlanta, GA & were in Burlington working on an urban renewal redevelopment project. Registered to Cousins Properties Inc of Atlanta, GA. Cancelled 5 April 1971. Nikitas - NAMUS #25453, Myers – NAMUS #27116, Williams – NAMUS #25824, Wilder – NAMUS #26244, Windsor – NAMUS #26480.

Corp/Exec

O/W

ObsoleteCollector

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Posts: 2
 #17 

"Though some interesting imagery was recorded, to include a possible debris field, no firm evidence of the crash site was found."

God, I've seen that line in an article, and it annoyed me. Because unfortunately, the side scans taken during that search, particularly what that debris field looked like, have never been made public. 

In fact, I haven't really found any good side scans of Lake Champlain. The only really comprehensive one available online (AFAIK) is on the Lake Champlain Basic Program website. But even then, several parts of the scan are graphical junk, and there are many areas not scanned, namely (though not limited to) shorelines. It also just seem poorly stitched together (though to be fair, I also haven't seen many side scans to compare it to), and zooming in all the way causes everything to disappear until you scroll back out again.

 

If only the scans over the multiple searches were made public so that we can re-examine them. Sigh...

csanta

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Posts: 13
 #18 
JR,  That is a very comprehensive summary.  Excellent information,  thank you. 

I grew up across the Lake from Burlington in Valcour NY.  The Lake was a big deal to us kids,  upon it was where Summer happened.   I was 10 when this plane crashed so you can imagine how it seemed like and big adventure to a young boy.  Boys back in my day read adventure books.  We were fresh off seeing a man land on the moon.  I took my boat many a time to the west shore of Shelburne Peninsula looking for stuff the summer of 1971.  I never found a thing.  I landed on and looked on Queneska,  I landing on and look on all Four Brothers.  

On and off I have thought about and actually researched finding this lost Plane in my back yard. 

This summer I am going out to find it if possible.  

What I need are just facts though.  So I am starting from a place where it is a blank slate and I am assuming nothing and investigating based upon what facts are available to me.  

I am not sure about the VT Maritime Law you quote.  I suspect that it is intended for archeological preservation and looting of historic items rather than to prevent a searcher from looking for something lost, no matter how long it has been lost.  Certainly when N400CP wreckage is found, whether purposefully or by accident, recovery of any remains and an investigation by the NTSB would be the next steps, with the NTSB having jurisdiction on whether or not to raise the wreckage or parts of it.  This is a fatal crash.  I hardly thing VT is going to raise a stink if it is found in 2022.  These families want to know what became of their loved ones. 

So 

The area of the search you indicate as the likely spot of the crash  has been scanned so many times I am beginning to question if the plane is South of Juniper Rock at all. Frankly, each time I actually research a "fact"  it becomes less factual and more rumor or supposition.  

I am starting with what I know as fact and that is very, very little.  

It is a fact that the plane was a 1121A serial number 130 Rockwell Jet Commander. Rockwell had purchased this project prior to the completion of this Jet.  

It is a fact that the plane took off on runway 33 to the NW at approximately 7:53 p.m on Jan. 27, 1971

It is a fact that communication between the tower and aircraft were working at this time. 

It is a fact that the aircraft was not experiencing any known control surface or instrumentation at this time.  

It is a fact that conditions were IMC that the weather was very cold, perhaps -5 at the time of take off and that snow was reported at SOME POINT during that day.  NOAA says that 2.8 inches was recorded in Burlington for the 24 hour period of 1/27/1971.  I see no evidence of "blizzard conditions" on any actual document.  Right now, I consider that hearsay. 

It is a fact that flights departed 33 to the NW both shortly before and shortly after this flight took off.  I have yet to confirm that a commercial flight returned to the BTV after take off out of concern for N400CP.  This is the second time I have heard this said.   

It is a fact that N400CP was owned by Cousins Properties of Atlanta, GA.  

It is a fact that reasonably comprehensive searches of land and lake surface were done at the time and that it can be an assumed fact that no debris coming from the plane was identified during those searches

It is an assumed fact that PIC George Nikita was flying the plane. Also in the cockpit right seat was Co Pilot Don Meyers.  

It is an assumed as fact that three other men were on board the plane as passengers.  

It is an assumed fact that it was headed to RI.  With other stops to follow.  

It is an assumed fact that the plane was lost and crashed sometime after take off. 


Right now,  pretty much that is all I know. 

I have read every available account; now including yours. 

I am expecting a package containing other facts or assumed facts and I will go from there.  To see what I can add to the above. 

As to your summary: 

Where did you find the Tower Transmission information; you say that the flight was cleared to FL90,  when?  and was it acknowledged?   Do you have access to a full log of all conversations with the PIC or the Co Pilot.   I don't read anything in your summary about permission for a heading change as the flight plan would have indicated.  

Where did you find the information on the Flight right before, what you call the Executive Jet?  Is there a log of flights in and out that night?    I have information saying that flight took off after N400CP but that is perhaps a different flight.  

When you say that the Debris which was found in the Spring was "confirmed" to be from the plane,  were is that confirmation to be found?  Why would an o2 bottle or a spare tire have serial number tying it to the plane when they weren't manufactured with the plane? 

I have read accounts that the source of the oil slick found by the AF was identified as coming from an known source,   Not true?  

In 1971 PAFB is was in full operation.  Low flying jets on the NY side was a multi-time daily event, day and night.  Jet landings at PAFB were South to North. PAFB at the time was home to FB111's and KC135 refueling planes.  Though I don't discount these reports I would need tower logs from PAFB for that night to see what their traffic was before giving any credence to this conjecture.  


JR,  if you can help with any of the above or have access to information that you think will assist me in developing a search grid I would greatly appreciate that.  

Regards,  Chris 


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Christopher Santa
csanta

Registered:
Posts: 13
 #19 
ObsoleteCollector,

Lake Champlain is a big lake.  121 miles long and 12 wide at the Port Douglas to Burlington transverse. Most is much more narrow,  2 to 5 miles. There are tons of islands and water depths from a few feet to almost 400.  This requires a number of different scan techniques and equipment.  You can't just mow the lawn with a towfish on Champlain. Your talking a huge undertaking  to scan it all and create an actual sonar bottom map.  As it's waters are divided between NY and VT no agency even exists who might pull off the coordination required. To combat simple problems like the Lamprey Eel required GOD to intervene and order that the alphabet soup  cooperate.  

Frankly many preservation groups on both the NY side and the VT side would frown on this and try to actually prevent this due to the number of historic wrecks still on the bottom and fear that divers would plunder these artifacts.  (This is not an unwarranted concern as many, many private collectors have things they acquired in this manner)  As a kid, my friends and I would routinely dive off Valcour Island in search of cannon balls.  Hundreds were found by amateurs  along with 11 cannons found, not far from there, by a few lads from Cliff Haven in 10 feet of water.  

Two other examples are the Wreck of the Sarah Ellen,  and the Spitfire.  Both locations are known by the Lake Placid Maritime Museum but just try to pry the GPS coordinates out of their hands.  

Many, many  scans have been done of portions of the lake, generally looking for something specific.  I believe that in the search for this plane as many as 14 searches have been conducted.  Champy is a big scan target.  The Lake Champlain Monster who inhabits the depths of the lake around where this plane is believed to be.  He arises from time to time to be photoshopped when tourist dollars are scarce.  I believe the Sarah Ellen was located looking for Champ and perhaps the Spitfire as well.  

Suffice it to say that unless something was somehow missed,  N400CP is not going to be found in the area west of Shelburne Peninsula.  I think once that I can get all the ACTUAL FACTUAL evidence,  I will be able to construct a reasonable grid which will, at last, force Lake Champlain to give up this secret. 

Regards,  Chris .
 

__________________
Christopher Santa
csanta

Registered:
Posts: 13
 #20 

Below is a reprint of an earlier post by JR,  It was great information,  likely the best thing you can read about this crash. His post was just small type and a bit hard to read.  



Enroute from Burlington, VT to Atlanta, GA w/enroute stops at Providence, RI, Newark, NJ, Harrisburg, PA & Jacksonville, FL. The aircraft departed Burlington International Airport at 1952 into near blizzard conditions. The aircraft was enroute to pick up another pax before continuing their flight to Atlanta. The pilot was last heard from when he acknowledged the tower’s instructions to climb to 9000 ft. The aircraft suddenly vanished from radar at 1955 while at 5000 ft near Shelburne Point, W of Burlington only 3 mins after take off. The last contact with the pilot indicated no problems. An Executive Airlines plane that had departed a few mins before the missing plane turned back to conduct a hasty visual search for the plane. Residents on the E side of the Lake Champlain reported hearing a jet fly over at about 2000. The pilot had filed an IFR flight plan. The forecast was limited visibility in blowing snow, turbulence & winds gusting to 20 knots.

The multi state (VT, NY) search was coordinated by the 44th ARRS at Warner-Robins AFB, GA & conducted by the VT Aeronautics Commission. The missing aircraft was presumed to have crashed into the Lake Champlain. A Shelburne police officer on routine patrol near Shelburne Point reported seeing a light out on the lake near Queneska Island. CAP aircraft conducted an initial visual search of the lake without results. This was followed by search of the lake by a VT ARNG fixed wing aircraft, a USCG helicopter & airboats. An attempt to use snowmobiles was ruled out due to the danger of falling thru the ice.

The search was then extended to the NY side of the lake on 29 Jan. A metallic object was spotted on the lake that day, was investigated by an ARNG aircraft & found to be a navigational buoy. When nothing was found in the lake, the search was extended on 30 Jan to the wooded areas around the lake. A NY State Police helicopter & 8 CAP aircraft along with a helicopter & 2 fixed-wing aircraft from the VT ARNG participated in the aerial search. NY CAP aircraft searched from Plattsburgh to Ticonderoga, NY, but uncovered no clues. Overcast, snow & sub-zero temps hampered search efforts & frequently grounded ARNG helicopters. On 31 Jan, a cross country skier reported seeing the tail of an aircraft at the 400 ft level of 4500 ft Whiteface Mountain in the Adirondack Mountains in NY. Based on this report & other witness reports, family members urged that the search be extended to the area around Whiteface Mountain.

That same day, 2 USAF RF4C photo recon jets from the 363d TRW at Shaw AFB, SC conducted photo runs over the search area to include the Champlain Valley & the lake.  It was hoped that the effort would produce imagery that could help find the wreckage. USAF photo analysts at Shaw AFB spotted an oil slick on the lake off Schuyler Island, 5 miles W of Burlington & a ¼ mile off the NY shoreline. This was investigated on 1 Feb by a pontoon equipped helicopter contracted by Cousins Properties. However, bitter cold & ice on the lake prevented the helicopter from landing at the site. The pilot reported spotting several oil spots on the ice. The search for the missing plane was suspended 4 Feb as -20 degree temps, the coldest temps since 1968, froze up the lake. Family members appealed to local residents for any tips or information.

The employers announced they were going to contract Ocean Systems Inc of Reston, VA for a sonar search of the area near Shelburne Point in an effort to find the wreckage. On 1 Feb, plans were made to use the former lake ferry Juniper to carry a 2 man submersible to search the lake. Searchers were going to use dynamite to blast a path thru 14 inches of ice to a point 1 mile out where the ice was thinner. Eventually, two small submarines were going to take part in the search. However, officials determined it was too dangerous to use the mini-subs at the time due to the thick ice on the lake. One 2-man submersible was sent back to a NY salvage yard while the other - the four-man Deep River - was turned around in Albany, NY & returned to Riviera Beach, FL. 

Based on numerous reports of a low flying jet, the 44th ARRS directed NY & VT CAP to search the mountainous area N of Whiteface Mountain in the Adirondack Mountains on 7-9 Feb. Whiteface Mountain, the White Notch & the Crown Point area were all searched. Numerous residents to include a USN Reserve pilot reported hearing a low flying jet over all 3 areas the night of 27 Jan. A VT State Police helicopter supported their efforts.  Search aircraft were hampered by snow showers, high winds & mountain obscuration at the 3000-5000 ft level. The winter wx conditions grounded search efforts on 9 Feb. A new ground search was initiated on 11 Feb in the Mitchell Mountain area, 20 miles SW of Plattsburg, NY after a "glimmer" of light was spotted in the area by a CAP aircraft on 10 Feb. This was an area of interest where numerous residents reported hearing a low flying jet. A 20 man State Patrol & CAP ground team mounted on skis & snow shoes was lifted into the area by USAF helicopters from Plattsburg AFB, NY. They were supported by a NY State Police helicopter in their search of the snow covered wooded & rocky slopes.  However, the source of the glimmer was not found.

On 24 April 1971, plane parts to include a wheel, window frame assembly, latex insulation from the forward cabin, parts of a radio, an antenna & oxygen bottle were found washed up in the vicinity of Queneska Island, 1 mile S of Shelburne Point by 2 men. The parts were identified by the VT Aeronautics Commission as belonging to the missing plane. Media reports stated that serial numbers on the parts were matched to the missing aircraft. The insulation was found to be soaked in JP6 jet fuel that matched the type used by the missing aircraft.  Another ground search of a 5 mile stretch shoreline was conducted by the VT State Police & Shelburne Police Department, supported by a private airboat that searched the ice covered lake. The effort failed to produce anymore wreckage & no human remains were found.

A private search of the lake was initiated by Ocean Systems Inc on 1 May 1971 that was funded by Cousins Properties. Assisted by local law enforcement, they searched a 14 square mile area of the lake SW of Juniper Island off Shelburne Point with a side scan sonar equipped schooner, diver teams & TV equipment. When nothing was found by 10 May, a diving bell & decompression equipment was sent from LA to support the effort. The wreckage of 2 old boats was found on 2 May & 8 May, but no trace of the missing plane. The search was suspended 19 May when all leads were exhausted.  

Based on the evidence, the VT Aeronautics Commission presumed the aircraft to have crashed into Lake Champlain in 330 ft of water in an area bordered by Juniper Island, Shelburne Point & Four Brothers Island. This was 10 miles SE of Burlington.

There was an unconfirmed rumor the aircraft was carrying $1 million in cash & negotiable bonds. This was never confirmed by Cousins Properties. However, it was the possible motivation for several private searches that were conducted over the years. In June & Dec 1979, a private sonar search was conducted by the Lake Champlain Phenomena that was funded by Rochester Engineering Laboratories of Fairport, NY. This was part of a combined search for the missing plane, a shipwreck & the “Lake Champlain Monster.” In July 1980, the Aeronautics Commission stated they had conducted a number of searches off Shelburne Point using state police divers without success.

On 19 Jan 1973, a “wrongful death” suit for $8 million was filed in US District Court by the estate of Mr. Wilder against Cousins Properties, Atlanta Air Maintenance & the North American Rockwell Corp. The suit was eventually settled for an undisclosed amount.

Over the years, family members have continued to press local authorities to resume the search. A renewed joint search effort to find the wreckage was mounted in July 2014 by a unified command that included the NY & VT State Police, US Forest Service, New York Department of Environmental Conservation, American Response for the Missing, Ocean Server Technology Inc, Marine Exploration Group, SeaBotix Inc, Greensea Systems Inc, Salem MA PD, Clinton County NY Sheriff's Department & the USCG. The team used remote underwater drones & sonar to scan 15 square miles of the lake bottom over the weekend of 19-20 July. Though some interesting imagery was recorded, to include a possible debris field, no firm evidence of the crash site was found. No trace of the crew & the 3 businessmen were ever found.

The NTSB was unable to determine the probable cause of the accident. ATP George G. Nikitas, 41 with 9908 flight hrs, co-pilot Donald E. Myers, Robert Ransom “Randy” Williams, 33, Frank Benjamin Wilder, 49 & Richard Kirby Windsor, 31. The pax were consultants for the real estate firm Cousins Properties of Atlanta, GA & were in Burlington working on an urban renewal redevelopment project. Registered to Cousins Properties Inc of Atlanta, GA. Cancelled 5 April 1971. Nikitas - NAMUS #25453, Myers – NAMUS #27116, Williams – NAMUS #25824, Wilder – NAMUS #26244, Windsor – NAMUS #26480.

 

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Christopher Santa
JR

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Posts: 343
 #21 
csanta,

I presume you are in contact with family members? I am a member of MAST (Missing Aircraft Search Team) and we were contacted by family members about three years ago requesting our assistance in searching for this aircraft. They provided us a trove of documents which are kept by our archivist. We eventually decided we could not physically help them like conducting an actual search, but we made recommendations as to what they should do.

We are not sure if they followed thru with our recommendations. Some family members believe part of the reason no one has found the crash site is that they keep going back to same spot time in the lake, to include the effort in 2014, instead of looking elsewhere in the lake. The other issue is that there are existing surveys of wrecks in the lake conducted by a local university and archived by a local maritime museum. They believe the surveys could have a location for the crash site, but both organizations have refused to share that information.

They are also beginning to believe the missing aircraft may not be in the lake after all.   

Most of the narrative in my Missing Aircraft Data Base is based on media reports and articles and what few official documents that still exist. There are virtually no accident reports known to exist for general aviation accidents prior to 1964, and from 1964 to 1992, there is very minimal official documents.

By the way, thanks for the feedback on my posting. In the future I will remember to post narratives in larger print.
csanta

Registered:
Posts: 13
 #22 
Hi JR

Yes,  I am now in contact with the members of the Family of the Pilot.  

I have the Prelim NTSB report along with all the maintenance, 557 pilot and co pilot, tower and line personnel,  aural and eye witness statements.  

The NTSB report also includes a transcript, directly from the recording,  of all communications with 400CP and 557.  

I believe that the family is absolutely correct.  The plane is not in the location where searchers have been looking. 

It is unclear if any of the debris located is part of this aircraft or if so,  from what direction it may have floated. It is of some concern to me that a steel o2 is included since they don't float regardless of full or empty status. AL tanks will float when empty.  Could be an AL tank.   At this moment,  I strongly consider the debris recovered as a media attention hoax.   

Based upon the actual search information from the days and weeks following the loss (provided to me by the owner of the aircraft) the plane is not on land; it is in the lake.  

I believe that I know roughly where and will find it this summer..

What would be helpful to me is a second set of eyes.  I would love to be able to call you and go over a few things if that is possible. 

Let me know.    

Thank you again for your input.  Every little bit helps.  

Warm Regards,  Chris 

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Christopher Santa
JR

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Posts: 343
 #23 
csanta,

Sent me an e-mail and we'll make contact.

JR
csanta

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Posts: 13
 #24 
JR,  Can't send you an email,  you have it set to private.   Mine is mainline8911011@gmail.com.   Drop me and email and we will work out a time for a call.   If you can acquire a map of BTV I will go over with you the events of that night and then plot as I did the probable location.  Your flight experience is vastly superior to mine so any assistance you can provide will greatly reduce my search area.  

Warm Regards,  Chris 

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Christopher Santa
JR

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 #25 
Thanks for pointing out my e-mail settings. I was not aware that it was set to private. I changed it to my research e-mail address and took off the private settings. I will contact you later tonight or tomorrow.
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